Electrical/fuse problem

[klaviator]

I rode my Kymco to Wally World on Saturday and when I came back out it wouldn't start and was completely dead.  I checked the fuses and one was blown.  This scooter uses those old Glass fuses.  The fuse was labeled F10AL250V.
I figured that was a 10 amp fuse and really don't know what the rest of that stuff means.  The scooter certainly doesn't have a 250 volt electrical system.  So I went to the Auto parts store and picked up some 10 amp glass fuses.  I installed one and everything seemed fine.  I took the scooter for a ride and the fuse blew.  No power to the dash or lights but the scooter ran fine.  It wouldn't start once I shut down. The new fuse is labeled 10A32V. 

So do I need a different fuse or do I have a more serious electrical problem?   Electrical stuff isn't my strong suit so advice would be appreciated.

[Hammerdown77]

Been a long time since I spec'd a fuse for anything, and I couldn't remember what the 'L' part of that marking meant. 'F' is 'fast acting', 'L' is 'low breaking capacity'.
10A = 10 Amp fuse
250V = 250 Volts or less.

My guess is you have something else going on with the scoot. Something is drawing a lot of current and popping that sucker. Do you know what circuit it is on?

[klaviator]

That fuse was in there since the scooter was new.  Around a year ago I had Midway rewire the power to the headlight to bypass a faulty Headlight Control module that was a known issue on these scooters.  I'm thinking they might have switched the headlight to a different circuit that wasn't meant for that much amperage.  Does 10 amps seem adequate for the headlights?  Of course that circuit has been like that for about a year and just now blew the fuse.  How much risk would there be to go to a slightly bigger fuse?

BTW, I bypassed the fuse to ride it home and didn't fry anything. 

[springer]

By-passing the fuse is not a good idea. Need to see what current the circuit is drawing at start-up of the motorcycle and the current while it is running. For that you will need an amp meter. I am on the phone now so it is hard to go into much detail.

[Hammerdown77]

So here's what I think, and this is worth exactly what you're paying for it, given the fact that we don't have a schematic and are basically just guessing...

If the bike was dead and you couldn't start it due to a blown fuse, that means that 10A fuse is likely on the starter relay/ECU/fuel pump circuit. I just checked for the V-Strom, and it has a 10A fuse for these as well.

AND, since you said Midway bypassed the headlight control module (A CLUE!), they likely put it on that same circuit.

Now, my VStrom has two separate 15A fuses for the hi and the low beam headlights. I'm sure the Kymco headlights are probably pulling less current, but still, adding them to that circuit may be enough to get close to the rating of that fuse.

The fact that you rode it for a year like that without issue though, makes me wonder if something else is now happening. Loose connector, worn wiring insulator, who knows.

My advice would be to take it back to Midway, since they'll know what they did, and tell them the fuse is blowing. Otherwise, we'd need a schematic and a multimeter and some time.

[kylepeterson]

Put a self resetting relay where the fuse should be. Start the bike and run a compass around it's wire harness.

It will flip n/s n/s when you get close to the short.

Witch Doctor stuff.

[klaviator]

When I bought the 10 Amp fuse, I bought a box with a few of them in it.  Today I decided to stick in another one of those fuses and see when it blew.  It didn't blow on startup so I rode it a few miles.  It still didn't blow. 

I guess I need to ride it some more and see what happens.  I won't ride it at night because the headlight goes out if the fuse blows.  As for whats on that circuit.  The start switch is on it, the clock and the headlight.  I'm not sure what else but I'll be doing some more investigating when I get the chance.  There are actually four headlights, 2 lo beam and 2 hi beam. 

I didn't put the cover over the battery back on so the fuse was not in the same position it normally sits in.  Maybe that is part of the problem  Each fuse has it's own individual plastic holder and they all are just hanging loose.

[Hammerdown77]

Kinda makes me wonder if that cover is positioning the fuse holder and wiring in such a way that it can ground out on something (what?) while riding due to vibration, acceleration/deceleration, etc.

[klaviator]

Kinda makes me wonder if that cover is positioning the fuse holder and wiring in such a way that it can ground out on something (what?) while riding due to vibration, acceleration/deceleration, etc.

That's what I'm thinking too.  That cover is a bit messed up so I'm going to try to get a new one, or just make something.  When I first got this bike I had a charging problem.  Midway fixed it under warranty and it turned out that the battery had rubbed through a wire.  The electrical system on the scooter just isn't that well designed.  Oh well, This bike cost me $2200 OTD over 7 years ago and I have nearly 30,000 miles on it.  I have gotten my money's worth out of it.  I want to get the odometer over 30,000 miles, about 200 to go, and than if it falls apart into a pile of rubble I still won't regret buying it.

[springer]

That's what I'm thinking too.  That cover is a bit messed up so I'm going to try to get a new one, or just make something.  When I first got this bike I had a charging problem.  Midway fixed it under warranty and it turned out that the battery had rubbed through a wire.  The electrical system on the scooter just isn't that well designed.  Oh well, This bike cost me $2200 OTD over 7 years ago and I have nearly 30,000 miles on it.  I have gotten my money's worth out of it.  I want to get the odometer over 30,000 miles, about 200 to go, and than if it falls apart into a pile of rubble I still won't regret buying it.

I have went the "run some wires for a circuit with a fuse" route before. Then I got "turned on"(get it?  :D :D ) to this;

https://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/main.html


As someone who makes sparks fly for a living, electrical/electronics guy for 37 some odd years, I really liked the easy of installation and keeping things neat, clean aspect.

They sell many different versions of that kit/\. Some with relays, more circuits/ less circuits. (Go a bit more than you think you will need so you have the ability to split up the factory circuits to ease future troubleshooting.)
They also sell other electrical  stuff to make everything nice n tidy, like running all the grounds back so a central sturdy ground can be used. ;)

Another hint, label everything, like what is on each circuit. Makes future troubleshooting easier.

[klaviator]

^^^^No doubt this is an excellent idea but I'm not sure how much longer I will keep the Kymco so I'm not going to put much time or money into it.  I've gotten my money's worth out of it.

Also, as someone who does electrical stuff for a living this would be much easier for you than for me.  I'd probably mess it up.  Maybe after I retire and have a lot of time to mess with stuff I'll be more up for a project like this.

[bblass]

My KTM 640 had this same issue a few months ago. I will almost guarantee you have a stripped wire that is grounding out when you make a tighter turn with the bars. It could be off the fuse box but if you had a gentle test run up & down the street that may not involve a near lock turn like a parking lot would.

Check your main harness coming off your starter/ kill switch near the steering column. If I'm wrong I owe you a beer at the cookout next month.

[klaviator]

My KTM 640 had this same issue a few months ago. I will almost guarantee you have a stripped wire that is grounding out when you make a tighter turn with the bars. It could be off the fuse box but if you had a gentle test run up & down the street that may not involve a near lock turn like a parking lot would.

Check your main harness coming off your starter/ kill switch near the steering column. If I'm wrong I owe you a beer at the cookout next month.

This is certainly a possibility but my test ride today was the same as the one I did when the fuse blew last time.  It was a few miles with a few reasonably tight turns.  After I check out the area around where the fuse is I will also test your theory by going out and practicing my Gymkhana skills.

[klaviator]

Another ride with no issues.  I turned the bars lock to lock.  It didn't short out.  I'm pretty sure I figured out the problem.  The new fuse I put in is slightly longer than the old one and didn't fit quite right into the fuse holder.  Then I just shoved the fuses back into an open place, not where they where supposed to go.  I think it just shorted out somewhere.  I think the original fuse blew because it was also not in the right place and got hot due to being near the cylinder head and/or exhaust pipe.

So now I need to find a shorter 10 Amp fuse or a different fuse holder. 

[klaviator]

Well I figured out the problem.  It was a bad connection right at the fuse.  That replacement fuse didn't actually blow out.  I just assumed it did since the circuit worked when I bypassed the fuse. 

I guess I shouldn't quit my present job to become an electrician :D