Harley E Bikes

[IceCold4x4]

I could have even seen 20k at realistic even but 30k? Yea nope....

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[klaviator]

I guess the competition is as much as around 20K but that would still be out of reach for most buyers. 

[norton73]

Motus bikes were priced just above $30K and a lot better equipped. Where are they now?

[Hammerdown77]

I expected this bike would be over $20k with the newness and tech, and being a Harley flagship model, but still under $25k. I thought they'd be dead in the water if the bike was more than most of their full dress touring rigs.

Then they went and did that.

So I'm not sure what the thought process is here, and who the market is. Likely now they're aiming at the premier class buyer who wants the latest greatest thing, but for whom motorcycles are still "toys". Problem is, that market is fickle, and heavily dependent on the state of the economy.

But then, most people who buy new Harleys (and BMWs for that matter) will finance the purchase price, usually with long loans, so the idea of what's "too expensive" is not as clear as it would be if folks were paying cash for these things.

[Hammerdown77]

Here's another take on a potential strategy for this bike.

https://electrek-co.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/electrek.co/2019/01/07/harley-davidson-livewire-e-motorcycle/amp/?usqp=mq331AQECAFYAQ%3D%3D&amp_js_v=0.1#aoh=15469527251029&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Felectrek.co%2F2019%2F01%2F07%2Fharley-davidson-livewire-e-motorcycle%2F

This bike may be a super low volume production run, driving exclusivity, much like the CVO bikes. For the type of buyer who buys things like that, as I said, this will be a win. They'll likely sell every one of them they make, but not to people wanting a $10k commuter.

Then they'll follow up with the less expensive city commuter bikes. Tesla has done similar with their cars. Come out swinging with the high dollar jobs first to drive exclusivity, then follow up with the less expensive "everyman" commuter cars.

[bblass]

As an electric car and Harley owner, I thought I was the prime marketing target for the Livewire. Not at 30K!

Really thought HD would try to deliver this bike for a little more than half of that. All that build up for 95% of interested motorcyclists to immediately let out a loud "NOPE!" once they see the price tag...

[klaviator]

One interesting thing I read in the link was that all dealers selling the Livewire must install a quick charging station.  If every Harley dealer does this then potentially you could ride one of these cross country riding from dealer to dealer.  While you are stopped you would have time to browse and pick up more Harley stuff!  Pretty ingenious on Harley's part. 

[springer]

One interesting thing I read in the link was that all dealers selling the Livewire must install a quick charging station.  If every Harley dealer does this then potentially you could ride one of these cross country riding from dealer to dealer.  While you are stopped you would have time to browse and pick up more Harley stuff!  Pretty ingenious on Harley's part.

You may dislike the motorcycles but you have to admire the marketing smarts the company has.  ;)

Right now there are more charging station but not really "enough" to make it comfortable to use it as an everyday type of thing...unless most of your commuting falls into the 20-30  miles to and back range...if you have a charger at home...of course a charger installed at your home is another cost of being one of the first in a new field.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1&q=electric+vehicle+charging+stations+near+me&npsic=0&rflfq=1&rlha=0&rllag=33432643,-86907724,12175&tbm=lcl&ved=2ahUKEwiHjbeHut7fAhUOn-AKHTvcB_AQtgN6BAgAEAQ&tbs=lrf:!2m1!1e3!2m1!1e16!3sCgIIASAB,lf:1,lf_ui:3&rldoc=1#rlfi=hd:;si:;mv:!1m2!1d33.6403767!2d-86.64285319999999!2m2!1d33.3472149!2d-87.0298734;tbs:lrf:!2m1!1e3!2m1!1e16!3sCgIIASAB,lf:1,lf_ui:3

Since Harley is now known for riders who will ride pretty far on trips, it makes even more sense to have a charging station there. Makes planning that trip easier.

I think it will not be long before most vehicles on the road are some kind of an electrical powered one. The tech involved is moving a head pretty swift...if you take a long view of things. 5 years ago, if you did that same search on Google that I did, you could find even 1/2 the ones listed.
Harley is not a dumb company. They see a future in this and are making moves to keep getting folks in the door.  ;)

[klaviator]

I don't dislike the Harleys or the Livewire.  I think it would be fun to ride but between the price and range I am not a potential customer.  Only time will tell if this will work out for them.  Maybe they want to establish themselves as the E bike leader before offering less expensive models.  That might be a smart strategy but if the Livewire doesn't sell then what do they do?

It will be interesting to watch how this turns out.

[Hammerdown77]

I think one thing we, as more "hard core" motorcyclists, people who view a motorcycle as a legitimate long range travel conveyance, often forget is that most people who ride motorcycles in this country don't ride them very far. "We" joke about H-D guys just riding to the bar and back, but look at the new cafe/hipster bike scene. They do the same thing. Or just ride it downtown to some old building so they can post filtered photos on Instagram.

The range part is not as big of a deal as we think (we meaning the small niche group of us that think 200 mile tank range is the entry point to "decent range")

What will really be the game change for E-bikes will be charging time. 5-10 minute charge time to get fully charged, now you're talking. At that point then the availability of charging stations becomes the limiting factor for actually using these bikes for trips.

Like Springer said, Harley ain't stupid, and they're very good at marketing and knowing their market, despite the occasional misstep. You can bet they did a lot of research to determine what the market was going to be not just for this bike, but for the next models they have coming down the pike. Time will tell whether or not their research and analysis bears fruit.

[Nice Goat]

I don't think that HD is very smart at all.  I think that they are stuck in their ways.  They wouldn't have the first idea how to build a lightweight adventure bike or dual sport.  They have tried a few innovative moves, but their adventure bike is heavy and ugly, and their electric bike took five years to bring to market and is ridiculously overpriced, even though Harley's CEO said in 2014 that the bike is aimed "to reach a more diverse group of riders including 18 to 35-year-olds, women, African-Americans and Hispanic riders".  I don't know anybody in that demographic that can afford to drop $30k on an unproven product.  They will continue to close plants, layoff workers, and watch their independent dealerships get bought up and consolidated by mega-dealers — until they figure out how to make something more exciting and affordable here in the USA.  And please don't bring up the Street 500, which at 492 pounds has a lower power-weight ratio than a Royal Enfield.

Now if they would make a 750cc scrambler that was fuel injected and weighed under 400 pounds, I'd head on over to the dealer and sign up.

[Hammerdown77]

I believe that quote was "part of an effort".

I never got the impression from all the press releases and the Project Livewire Tour that the target for the Livewire was poor millenials. Very clearly this initial product is not for poor people. And, or course, not all millenials are poor. Depends on which part of the country you're looking at.

So now everyone is comparing this bike to Zero's offerings. I got curious and wondered how many bikes Zero makes/sells. And that number is really hard to find, apparently, since they haven't released numbers. However, I did find a Business Insider article that states they produce about 2000 bikes a year
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-of-electric-motorcycles-zero-motorcycles-shares-company-plans-2018-3

It would be interesting to see a breakout of those sales numbers by country region. I'm guessing most are California, specifically big cities, and urban areas everywhere else. And in those cases, you definitely have more wealth among that new demographic than anywhere else in the country. And those are areas where electric scooters and bikes are becoming more popular for urban commuting. Which I'm sure is why H-D keeps showing us all these prototype pictures of electirc bikes and scooter looking things.

[kylepeterson]

So a kid has enough credit to get a livewire, his first new vehicle...
But the Honda accord has four seats, 350 mile range, hvac, sunroof, VTEC YO, and that new car smell... And the Honda is six grand cheaper ?

The forty something obviously can afford to just buy it, but the house needs paint, carpet, and a new deck...

The sixty something would buy it, but why bother with a cheap plastic looking doohickey that has no soul ?

Who is this 85 mile (honesty vs advertising) range bike for ?

I dunno, the price is a real disappointment

[Slede]

Well, the Bar & Shield has managed to price the Livewire out of the reach of anyone wanting a commuter bike.

https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/2020-harley-davidson-livewire-price-details/

$29,799

historic is right, the official death note of the electric bike. FFS

[kylepeterson]

This is the best picture I've found of it.

Brembo brakes, cool!

That mini front fender means lots of road splash, and there is no protection for the fork stanchions. Most modern street bikes have a wrap around fork protector that isn't hideous.

The rear end... good lord they really can't let go of the bobber thinking... no grab handles, no saddle bags, no comfort for the passenger ? How are you supposed to sell this to the wife with no place for her to sit ? Emasculated males need help with selling their wives for things, don't cha know ?

But that plastic... what's the deal with the silver thing at the bottom? Normally electric motors are extremely compact, round, and about the size of kid sized soccer ball... batteries are normally square or rectangular to pack the most amp hours into the smallest package... why the fake silver plastic? Are they trying to appeal to the ICE crowd ?

I really expected to see the electric motor partially or fully revealed, on the Harley model. Maybe some big "90 ft/lb" graphics on it ? Or "15,000 watts" in big bold letters ?

They've been showcasing the engines for a hundred years, why hide a motor behind  faux plastic panels ?

Man I really hope they make a second model, like a stripped down flat tracker or "commuter" with better ergonomics chance of selling.

I'm going to watch the info about the infotainment system, that might be something to snag from eBay and graft into a sumo ;-)