Female motorcyclist shot and killed a man after a road rage dispute.

Started by klaviator, February 09, 2018, 01:55:18 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Print
Go Down Pages1 2
User actions

klaviator

February 09, 2018, 01:55:18 PM Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 02:15:38 PM by klaviator
Interesting story here:  http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/crime/article199219419.html

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  What the article didn't say that this guy was beating up the young women/rider and she managed to pull her gun and shoot him.

Interesting discussion on this in ADV:  http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/female-motorcyclist-shot-and-killed-a-man-after-a-road-rage-dispute.1281822/

Nice Goat

#1
February 10, 2018, 02:39:18 AM
Discussions on ADV Rider tend to turn into a lot of chest-thumping and name-calling, especially when the issue involves guns, immigration, and any other political or religious topic.

Apparently there were many witnesses to this event, because it happened during rush hour near Seattle.  The motorcycle rider passed the old guy in the SUV, and he apparently did not like how she did it.  He put on his "Enforcer" hat and pushed her into the median.  He jumped out and commenced to wailing on her.  They ended up on the ground with him trying to smash her head into the ground.  She got up somehow, and he attacked again, hitting her against the median wall.  She was able to push him off again, then she pulled her gun and shot him once in the torso, just as other people were running up to pull him off of her.

She called 911 and waited.  The old guy's wife never got out of the vehicle.  Apparently old guy's family disowned him years ago for being the World's Biggest Asshole.  And her friends are saying online that she always ran video, so maybe we'll see that someday.

There is no reliable statistic for the number of people in the USA who regularly carry a firearm.  Most estimates put it between 7-10%.  In some states, that percentage is much higher.  For truck drivers and motorcyclists, I imagine it is higher also.  Somewhere between 15-30 million people in this country are carrying a firearm regularly.  You are playing Russian Roulette every time you fuck with somebody.  Most rational people know this and act accordingly.

I am glad that the young lady is alive and kicking.  It's too bad that the grumpy old guy is dead, but he should not have physically attacked an unknown person.  He played roulette and lost.
IBA #63019 - 2022 Yamaha Tenere 700 - 2023 Yamaha XMAX 300
Deep thought: "Pie and coffee are as important as gasoline."

klaviator

#2
February 10, 2018, 03:36:16 AM
Quote from: Nice Goat on February 10, 2018, 02:39:18 AM
Discussions on ADV Rider tend to turn into a lot of chest-thumping and name-calling, especially when the issue involves guns, immigration, and any other political or religious topic.

Apparently there were many witnesses to this event, because it happened during rush hour near Seattle.  The motorcycle rider passed the old guy in the SUV, and he apparently did not like how she did it.  He put on his "Enforcer" hat and pushed her into the median.  He jumped out and commenced to wailing on her.  They ended up on the ground with him trying to smash her head into the ground.  She got up somehow, and he attacked again, hitting her against the median wall.  She was able to push him off again, then she pulled her gun and shot him once in the torso, just as other people were running up to pull him off of her.

She called 911 and waited.  The old guy's wife never got out of the vehicle.  Apparently old guy's family disowned him years ago for being the World's Biggest Asshole.  And her friends are saying online that she always ran video, so maybe we'll see that someday.

There is no reliable statistic for the number of people in the USA who regularly carry a firearm.  Most estimates put it between 7-10%.  In some states, that percentage is much higher.  For truck drivers and motorcyclists, I imagine it is higher also.  Somewhere between 15-30 million people in this country are carrying a firearm regularly.  You are playing Russian Roulette every time you fuck with somebody.  Most rational people know this and act accordingly.

I am glad that the young lady is alive and kicking.  It's too bad that the grumpy old guy is dead, but he should not have physically attacked an unknown person.  He played roulette and lost.

You are right about discussions on ADV, it did not take long for this thread to be moved into the basement. 

I'm surprised we haven't seen more incidents like this give the amount of road rage in the country combined with the number of people who carry. 

The lesson I get from this story is to try real hard to avoid getting involved in incidents like this.  Typically both parties in an incident like this end up loosing.  The guy is dead and the gal has to deal with legal issues and the trauma of having shot someone.

As for the grumpy old man, he didn't just play roulette, he was an asshole for beating up a woman and I really can't feel sorry for him.

kylepeterson

#3
February 10, 2018, 05:44:02 PM
One less asshole.

I hope the lady moves on and gets lots of free counseling.
just give 'er the berries !

Chitza

#4
February 11, 2018, 07:24:57 AM
If he used his truck to push her off the road, his truck became a deadly weapon and he assaulter her with it. She had every right to defend herself. I'm no lawyer, but as a potential jury member I wouldn't vote guilty unless they could show me more damning evidence.
Loud pipes make me hungry for Valium biscuits and scotch gravy. - kdtrull

Yeah....ham it up, crackers.   ;D -kdtrull
The politically correct term is "Saltine American". -KevinB

DachshundUberAlles

#5
February 11, 2018, 01:25:14 PM
"Road Rage" is a scourge in this country, one that shows no sign of letting up any time soon. What I would term as "aggressive postings" on hobby oriented sites is an equally sad development. There are enough political oriented sites out there for people to get that stuff out of their systems. Alas, there are quite a few people who just can't confine it there. Even when a hobby oriented site like this provides a specific sub outlet, they just can't leave well enough alone and drop their little nuggets of nonsense (as opposed to "words of wisdom") where they are specifically told to NOT do it.
As for the incident and article subject, it's a shame such had to occur, but anyone "going on the attack" knowing full well the likelihood of meeting lethal resistance has shown a serious lack of judgement.
There's no such thing as a "REAL RIDER!". If you have a motorcycle, you've done all you need to do.

klaviator

#6
February 11, 2018, 02:32:32 PM
Quote from: DachshundUberAlles on February 11, 2018, 01:25:14 PM
As for the incident and article subject, it's a shame such had to occur, but anyone "going on the attack" knowing full well the likelihood of meeting lethal resistance has shown a serious lack of judgement.

Regardless of the possibility of lethal resistance, going on the attack is just a dumb idea.  If she hadn't shot him he would probably be facing assault charges. 

Bottom line here for me is to try to avoid these situations.  There was no winner here.  It's easy to get caught up in the heat of the moment and do something you'll regret later.  Although the woman may have been justified I'm pretty sure she wishes it hadn't happened.  I wasn't there so I don't know how easy it would have been for her to avoid this situation.

As riders there is always the  possibility of having a confrontation with someone who hates motorcycle riders.  Maybe some crazy stunter pisses someone off and then you are the next rider that person encounters.  Maybe something like that happened in this case.   

catang5oh

#7
February 12, 2018, 09:46:03 PM
She has a leg to stand on per Washington State use of force.

We will see though, they do straddle the fence.

Verbal threats are not enough to justify the use of deadly force. There must be an overt act by the person which indicates that he immediately intends to carry out the threat. The person threatened must reasonably believe that he will be killed or suffer serious bodily harm if he does not immediately take the life of his adversary.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

kylepeterson

#9
March 19, 2018, 12:05:58 PM
Quote from: catang5oh on March 19, 2018, 09:45:25 AM
https://www.circa.com/story/2018/03/18/nation/motorcycle-rider-who-shot-killed-driver-wont-be-charged



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Good for her.


You never know what the guy/gal next to you is carrying. Might be a gallon of milk, or an Uzi. Leave em  alone and ride on .
just give 'er the berries !

TC

#10
March 21, 2018, 06:02:33 AM
From the facts as stated earlier, from my experience as an attorney and former police officer, it certainly appeared that she was justified in shooting the guy as he was seriously and continuously assaulting her when she shot him.  For a shooting to be justified, you must be in fear of your life or protecting someone else's life at the time of the shooting.  Someone earlier mentioned the he had assaulted her with his vehicle when he ran her off the road.  However that threat was over when she shot him so that would NOT have justified the shooting but his continuous physical assault of her would. Please remember that the threat on your life must be ongoing at the time of the shooting.  If you have been run off the road and shoot the driver of the vehicle AFTER the accident, unless the driver is attacking you on the side of the road in a manner that would reasonably put you in fear of your life, that shooting would not be justified.

Brian A

#11
March 21, 2018, 07:16:46 AM Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 08:41:23 AM by Brian A
All the comments above are probably the most sane, rational, level-headed I have ever seen in an open forum discussion on the merits and issues of legal concealed carry and the use of deadly force.

Probably because those making the comments are all sane, rational, level-headed individuals. I will take the liberty of including myself in said group.

There are four things that ALWAYS serve to dissuade me from seeking confrontation:

#1 - martial arts and good MMA, etc fighters. Like motorcycle riders, one can NEVER judge how skilled a rider or a fighter is simply based on appearance alone. I have been around enough of both to know that, while I can manage to hold my own in many cases, there are plenty of opportunities to come across one of either ilk who is so far ahead of me so that I "don't stand a chance". 

#2 - The understanding that a potential foe may well be armed. Firearm or knife - either can kill you and I prefer not being killed.

#3 - The concern over being put into a situation where I was fully within my rights to use deadly force. I prefer not killing someone. Even if justified, there would be outcomes that I simply would not want to deal with.

#4 - It just ain't worth the hassle. Yeah, some people live life always on the edge of a confrontation. Never let a chance for an escalation pass by without taking it. That's not me. I am far enough along in life where I am pretty comfortable with who I am and what I want. I want to enjoy life and be left alone.
That's really it. I just want to enjoy life - with all my friends - and be left alone.

I am not idealistic enough to think the world will always respect my wishes. There are people out there who couldn't care less about me and my wishes. There are mean people, bad people, crazy people and drug affected people who can and do prey on folks like me.

So..... In a way, I guess it's a similar attitude that many of use take when we ride street or dirt: You don't prepare for the ride, you prepare for the crash.

lazeebum

#12
March 22, 2018, 01:00:06 PM
My personal motto. "The escalation of a situation can land you in one of three places, the jail, the hospital, or funeral home." I don't like none of them places. If you win, you can go to jail, if you lose, you're subject to end up one of the other two.
Print
Go Up Pages1 2
User actions