broken katoom

[rmcelroy]

some of you know i've been having issues with my 690.  i was wanting to get some opinions on what this issue could be...

I was on a long ride a few weeks ago, and the bike started missing, puttering, and basically just performing like crap about half way through.   the problem started small, to where I was just barely notice it missing, and quickly degraded from there.  not even 50 miles later, if i gave the bike any substantial amount of throttle, it would just bog down, and the only way i was able to gain any forward momentum was to repeatedly blip the throttle.  I was able to blip her about 75 miles back to the house.  not fun.

first thought was fuel delivery.  I changed the fuel filter, it was black.  that seemed to do the trick, the problem appeared to go away.  until the next weekend.  i made it about 50-60 miles, before the same problem came back.  I then changed the fuel pump, but unfortunately, the bike is still acting up...  at least I suppose I have ruled out pump issues.

next steps will be cleaning the injector.  Also now thinking this may be an ignition problem... maybe the coil, or R/R.  I took a quick video of what he bike is doing, thoughts?

[Mulley]

That really sounds like a fuel issue. Maybe test it with something like this just to make sure there isn't a bad connection in the tank causing pressure loss.

https://youtu.be/u-n6f5267q8


I would say to do a tank swap with someone just to verify it's not a pump or fuel plumbing issue but that's probably not very easy with a rear tank.

[kylepeterson]

that weird rev sound could be an ignition hiccup, like the ECU thinks it's at redline so it cuts fuel at the injector.

but it could just be a clogged injector. given you had a dirt filter and it ran better after changing the filter.... I would expect it to be a wire problem. why? because it's the least expected, and you had to move stuff around to get to the filter. one chaffed wire can wreak havoc on Ecu performance.

I would pull the injector and try to start the bike (outside, fire extinguisher handy) and see what the fuel flow/pattern looks like.

[Jwwr]

Not sure about the 690 ,but some KTM's have a large filter in the tank and a small cone shaped filter that is inside the fuel line at the quick disconnect for the tank.

[Fencejumper09]

@Jwwr is correct about a cone filter. In some 690 models (can't remember the years) their is a cone filter just before the injector.

@kylepeterson is onto something with the wire issue. With the vibration of these 690s and your mileage I would take the battery out and have a look at the loom that is stupidly routed under it. I have just over 10k mile on mine and have found 3 or 4 wires that were nearly chaffed in half! (Gold Bond won't fix chaffed wires)

@Mulley brings up a valid point about issues inside the tank. Since you have just recently replaced the in tank fuel filter I would check that you didn't crimp any hoses thus limited fuel supply on hard throttle. There is a special twist you must perform while re-inserting the filter and pump apparatus into the bottom of the tank.

It is also common for the hose connections to pop off of the pump as it is producing very high pressures

Did you upgrade the spade connections at the ignition coil like we talked about last time?

Some people have had issues with the ceramic on the spark plug cracking after being hot and hit with cold water. May be worth a check.

While on spark plugs, I would cut off some of the plug wire at the plug end and reinstall cap to make sure you don't have any corrosion in there.

[rmcelroy]

@Jwwr is correct about a cone filter. In some 690 models (can't remember the years) their is a cone filter just before the injector.

@kylepeterson is onto something with the wire issue. With the vibration of these 690s and your mileage I would take the battery out and have a look at the loom that is stupidly routed under it. I have just over 10k mile on mine and have found 3 or 4 wires that were nearly chaffed in half! (Gold Bond won't fix chaffed wires)

@Mulley brings up a valid point about issues inside the tank. Since you have just recently replaced the in tank fuel filter I would check that you didn't crimp any hoses thus limited fuel supply on hard throttle. There is a special twist you must perform while re-inserting the filter and pump apparatus into the bottom of the tank.

It is also common for the hose connections to pop off of the pump as it is producing very high pressures

Did you upgrade the spade connections at the ignition coil like we talked about last time?

Some people have had issues with the ceramic on the spark plug cracking after being hot and hit with cold water. May be worth a check.

While on spark plugs, I would cut off some of the plug wire at the plug end and reinstall cap to make sure you don't have any corrosion in there.

my bike doesnt have the cone filter.

I checked the wires under the fuse/battery compartment not too long ago, everything seemed fine.  I will double check to make sure though...

after swaping the in-take filter, and having this issue re-occur, I had to pull the tank guts back out to swap the pump.  I verified the connectors were all good, and I didnt appear to have any other hose type issues...  I would like to go a fuel line pressure test.  need to get me one of them fancy harbor freight pressure testers I suppose.

also worth noting that I did replace the plug.  I just ordered a new coil, it is getting swapped out next.

[bblass]

Does it do it just at start up or only after you've been riding for awhile? I'm putting money on a short at the throttle position sensor or bad ground to the frame.

https://www.supermotojunkie.com/showthread.php?147913-KTM-690-Stalling-Problem-Solved

https://thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/654264-ktm-690-definitive-stalling-fi-discussion/?page=6

[rmcelroy]

Does it do it just at start up or only after you've been riding for awhile? I'm putting money on a short at the throttle position sensor or bad ground to the frame.

https://www.supermotojunkie.com/showthread.php?147913-KTM-690-Stalling-Problem-Solved

https://thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/654264-ktm-690-definitive-stalling-fi-discussion/?page=6

the bike was stone cold in the video i posted. 

both times this problem started it was conveniently during a ride, when the bike was nice and hot.  but the problem doesnt go away when the bike cools off. 

[bblass]

Found this on ADVRider - http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/ktm-690-stalling-issues.687952/

Have a buddy with a 690 that might let you swap throttle bodies? On a big thumper like the the 690 it may have just rattled something out of adjustment and not need replacing.

I have a 2008 ktm 690 enduro that i got at the end of 2008. It currently has 6,700 miles on it and just got out of the shop the end of march 2011.
It started to have a chronic stalling problem this past december. FMF slip on, stock mapping, stock filter. The power was also suffering a little.

The shop was talking with ktm every step of the way to trouble shoot it. It took about 2 months but one factor was that they say the FMF doesn't create enough back pressure, and a lot of high speed riding blew out a lot of packing making it worse. (i only had the fmf on for a year).

The bottom line though, was the fuel pressure was low, and it needed a fuel pump, so they changed filters and found junk in there, presumably residue that is created as the fuel pump fails, plus maybe some stuff that can fall in there, but i've been careful when refueling.

This was after all the remapping, resetting, and every computer analyzation they could put the thing through. Swapping out whatever parts to test, checking connections, throttle positions, throttle cables all that blah blah blah.

So after new pump and hoses and filters and air filters and stuff it still just quits like turning off a switch, won't idle. When i was riding it though, i could keep it running by blipping the throttle and keeping the r's up.

The one clue we had was every once in a while, since it was new, it would give a slight blip to the throttle by itself, like an elevated idle, at very low speed. It was something that made me think i had a throttle cable pinched or something, when you turn the bars, but i couldn't duplicate it, so i was almost thinking it was my imagination.

So the second bottom line was ktm had to send a throttle body they picked up the tab for, because some kind of non replaceable electronic part that i forgot the name of, was failing on the throttle body. (stepper? idle do hickey whatever) The electronic tests just don't show it is faulty unless it does it right in front of you. No fault codes the whole time from the beginning. But i think after all the work it finally spit out one fault.

So that fixed it, and then i had them put the $890 akro and programming on it, because i was tired of the stinky smoking stickers on the fmf cooking after every ride, plus the other reasons they mentioned about performance and back pressure.

And now it runs great, no problems. Despite all that, i love this bike. I am not gentle with it, i skim the whoops, ride trail, can't keep blinkers on the back, broke off all that stock stuff, mirrors regularly break off, etc. I suppose the jostling and whoops could have been stressful to the pump components. I know the air box takes a beating.

I also had to put those super bolts on for the upper tank bolts, the ones that hold the whole gas tank sub frame on, from that australian dude somewhere in these adv pages, because a snapped one of those and pretzeled the other. (the main reason for putting on the fmf- lighter weight on the subframe, because i preferred the stealthiness of the stock muffler) I have touratech luggage racks but have never had luggage on the bike.

Best thing was after putting like 40hrs into it, i only got charged 5hrs. Fuel pump was $304. The dealer is a good shop and they work on all ktm's, 950's and all for years, but this one just had them pulling their hair out.

weird note: the stock, from the factory fuel hose to the tank, ktm says they didn't recognize it and don't know where it came from. couplings or the hose itself or something, had the dealer and ktm puzzled, don't ask me.

i did say i still love the bike right
seeyas

[rmcelroy]

I checked the TPS voltage levels in the not too distant past.  I will definitely double check them again.  I just ordered a replacement coil and regulator, and am going to send my injector off for a flow test and ultrasonic cleaning.  might as well go ahead and pick up a fuel pressure gauge while I am at it...  those items should cover a majority of the common fuel/ignition issues.  I will post a status update once all that crap is done.

[Brian A]

Any chance the new fuel filter you installed is now clogged as well?

Maybe unlikely but certainly possible.

You said it seemed to fix the problem but only for a short time. What if there was enough crud, from somewhere, to clog the new one quickly?

Maybe worth a try?

[Mulley]

One of the big problems with the stock pump is that it disintegrates over time and clogs the filter and everything else. If really could just be a lot more trash. To Kyle's point, pull the injector and let it spray in the air. I've seen it done by a mechanic, but I've never personally done it. The injector's are another known problem on the early models of KTM fuel injected bikes. I think mostly because of inadequate filters. Probably the reason the second filter was added.

Once you get it fixed you should really consider add an inline filter. Here's a very nice one from Zipty racing.

https://slavensracing.com/shop/quick-disconnect-billet-fuel-filter-zip-ty-racing/

[rmcelroy]

Any chance the new fuel filter you installed is now clogged as well?

Maybe unlikely but certainly possible.

You said it seemed to fix the problem but only for a short time. What if there was enough crud, from somewhere, to clog the new one quickly?

Maybe worth a try?

hmm...  maybe.  I just sent my injector off for a fancy flow test and ultrasonic cleaning.  as soon as i get it back, I will see if that makes a bit of difference, and if not, I do have another filter, due to getting that new pump, so maybe I will try slapping that bad boy in there.  hopefully more to come, next week...

[rmcelroy]

well, I got my injector back.  the fancy flow test showed almost a 6% increase in flow...  not bad.  but I dont think that was enough to cause the issues I was seeing. 

I also went ahead and changed the fuel filter again, just for giggles. 

and I put on the fancy new Mosfet regulator that I wired up... 

after all that, I fired her up for a minute late last night, and she appeared to be able to idle, and I was able to twist the throttle, and the bike revved through the range normally.  My plan is to put her dress back on this evening, and hopefully take her out for a quick test ride this weekend...  we shall see. 

[Nice Goat]

Likely root cause...

No gremlin bell